#049: One-on-One with "Our Money Stories" Author Eugenié George

Have you ever wondered why you have the relationship you do with money? For years financial professionals have known our childhood experiences with money shape our perception of money and our ability to save, spend, invest, and donate. But many of us were unaware of our money stories not just from our own life experiences, we were unaware of the experiences our parents, grandparents and other ancestors had with money.

As it turns out, experiences with money, particularly those of a traumatic variety, can shape our perception of money and our ability to successfully use it as a tool for generations. Joining us on the show is financial educator and financial wellness expert Eugenié George, who recently self-published a book, "Our Money Stories," in June 2020 exploring this very topic.

About Eugenié George
For the past two years, I have gathered uncomfortable data and created an unorthodox way of viewing money patterns, interviewing, Women of Color, and Financial Advisors. I used Financial Wellness as the vehicle because there was a blue ocean to examine how ancestry, behavior economics, and habits can dramatically impact our views around money. So during my time as an MBA student, I decided to try my hand at writing non-fiction. I had a budget of $2,000 and I set out to self-publish a book. Finding interviews, academic data, and scheduling time on a shoestring budget was tough, but it’s something I’m proud of. The result was my debut, Our Money Stories, which has just been released. During a pandemic and our national response to critical conversations around race and equity. topic.

Transcript

Intro: 0:00

Welcome to Talk Wealth, to me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance.

Felipe Arevalo: 0:16

The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham: 0:29

Hello, and welcome to another edition of talk about this week. Katie, Phil and I sit down with the author of our money stories, the unbelievable Eugenie George born and raised in California, a graduate of the university of California-Berkeley has her MBA. She's also a certified financial educator and this book really dives deep into the psychology of money. And that's where Our Money Stories comes from.

Katie Utterback: 1:02

Well, maybe we've talked on other episodes Eugenie about how your mental health or your childhood experiences with money can affect your current use of money. You're spending saving. We've never really gone in depth the way you've gone in-depth in your book. And I chase that. I started reading it too. It's not only great, but it's triggering me. It's triggering me actually.

Eugenie George: 1:28

Yeah, that's what I wrote in the introduction said if, uh, if I was like, if you don't hate me in some parts of this book, then I have not done my job. Well, um, you have to hate me at this when you're reading it, because, um, that triggering those triggering points are the thing that, um, that makes people take action. You know? Yeah. I particularly for that, uh, when I wrote it, the, my first, this is like my 10th draft of the book, but my first draft was, uh, was called"Not Your Average White Guy's Money Book." And it was k inda like a joke, right? Cause it was, u m, you know, i t still was, it was k ind o f just talking about statistics that weren't real, u m, or are accurate, but they're not going to help move change. So that's when I started adding in the stories of, o kay, I need to actually interview women. I need to sit with being uncomfortable with all of these stories cause they're very uncomfortable. Um, and then I have to go through the journey myself, right? Cause you've got to break down and unlearn a lot of things. Um, and even right now, the path that I'm kind of going through, you know, we talk about the, the people say the racial wealth gap and whatnot. And, and after writing this book, I truly believe that we have to stop calling it a racial wealth gap because that would have meant that everyone had an equal playing field and you could actually fill the gap. Right. We know that there are systems in place, like even me, how I sound, I went to UC Berkeley, right? I did all the things. I'm still having to deal with people not taking me seriously. Right. It had to go through me, writing a book, doing all this research about it. Um, and to kind of speak on the, the traumatic part. I was listening. I heard this I'm there for the current California surgeon general Nadine Burke Harris talk about adverse childhood experiences. And basically it's a test and study by Kaiser Permanente and the CDC. And it says like, here's a metric, what's actually look at your childhood, pass all your trauma and let's see what could be their longterm health, uh, issues right there, your overall, your mental health, your longterm. And that chat made me literally chuck, you know, a hundred pages of a book, not call it not your average white guy's money, but, and really get into studies about, um, behavior and psychology, uh, around that. And so for my experience for the, um, the, the, the adverse childhood experience in the book, I talk about, um, how basically so much of my trauma and who I am today was because I have a type a personality. And the reason why I had the type I type a personality is because I was always in survival mode. So I knew even when I was in middle school, I had to wake up at 5:00 AM. I had to like take the bus and BART, cause I'm from California to, to get to school. And you can't miss that. Bless and BART, cause then you'd be at home. And so all of those little traumatic things lead to me having panic attacks, right. And that's affects your money overall because if you're not sleeping, which is what I'm not doing right now, um, I'm not doing that well right now. Um, cause I'm like kind of excited, um, that affects your overall productivity, right? And your productivity affects your money. So just kind of, I think it's really important for it. Doesn't matter who is going through it. It's really important to understand where your, how your past is creating your current moments. Um, and it really doesn't matter what socioeconomic, like it doesn't matter. It's, it's the fact that most people weren't able to have a voice period. So if you were never able to have a voice, right, and you were never able to really speak up for what you believed in, we kind of go into these weird narrow boxes. Um, and so that was kind of a huge chunk for me to unlearn.

Felipe Arevalo: 5:53

It's crazy. I've heard, Nadine talk about the adverse child. Uh, she was actually on armchair expert with, uh, a deck shop or the direction of podcast and that's where I first heard about it. Um, and it's very interesting that there's those childhood traumas that happen that can have lifelong effects on all the aspects of, of life in, in interesting to realize that money is not exempt from that.

Eugenie George: 6:29

Right? Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's right.

Chase Peckham: 6:36

Oh gosh. Are they screwed up? They're going to come back at 30 years old and go, mom and dad did this back in 2000 and I'm screwed up because of it, right?

Eugenie George: 6:46

Yeah. Yeah. That, I think that's, um, I'm glad that she does on Dax Shepard. I mean, I feel like he is a person online just discovering him now. Fantastic much. Yes. And how much of a, um, his emotional intelligence to understand that he's wrong. That's, that's, that's what we want for the book. Right? Behavioral economics. Um, I mean, what we use as an economy, which is, um, CA Kinsey in, uh, economics, like pour money in when folks aren't doing really well and then make them spend, spend, spend, I remember reading the article like, um, uh, Keynes is like E letter that he wrote to his friend and I said, Oh my gosh, that's a bro. Like he's not even talking about any trauma. He's just talking about how great he is and like how this, this new economic model is gonna like change the entire world. And so even that you can think about his childhood trauma and say, well, here's a bunch of other things that we don't know. So it, I mean, I got super meta and when I interviewed the women in, in particular, um, I said, listen, I'm not going to put your name on the book. Um, I'm going to tell you some of the policies that have been in place for, in America. Um, and we're going to just listen to your story. Um, and yeah, it was, uh, 40 women. I was in grad school when I did it. And so I had access to resources, right. I had a library and getting, uh, research is expensive. So having that access free access to a library is great. Um, so that really helped. And then the last thing with the adverse childhood experience, I was able to see that my father's pain patterns and my mother's patterns have such a large effect on my own trauma that I had to undo that as well. Um, and of course I'm still undoing it, but, uh, that's kinda like the, the big pieces around adverse childhood it's traumatic. And I would advise folks to do it with the therapist cause I did most of the work with the therapist. Cause there was no way Oh yeah. You know, the trauma that they ask you is pretty heavy, so it's kind of hard to next to do it on your own all the time.

Katie Utterback: 9:16

I was going to ask you about that. Um, I have trauma that I work with a therapist on and a lot of it is stuff that I didn't remember. And so I was wondering, um, you know, after reading your book and being triggered by that, I've been trying to figure out my own money journey. And it's really hard because like you mentioned in your book, there was a point where I just described all of my money, mistakes as well. I'm just bad at math numbers. Don't agree with me. That's what it is. And that was just such a simple explanation, but that's just kind of what I ran with. And I, that kind of became like a part of my personality. But as I started looking deeper, like there were instances in which I was a child and I was, you know, told like, we're going to need to take your savings to pay the mortgage. That's going to be traumatic, but that's not something that one I knew was going to be traumatic. And two, I didn't remember that. So how did you at the time that you knew, right. So I guess how do you, especially in a case like that, where you may have just viewed something as normal, when it wasn't, how do you go back and try to find those maybe money pitfalls that are still affecting your psyche?

Eugenie George: 10:30

Yeah. I love that Katie. I think, um, the first thing is, Uh, I'm right now during this time of like writing and promoting, I'm reading the grief recovery handbook, right. Which is a great book. And, you know, there are grief certified grief coaches that go and help folks when they're dealing with a loss of a job or the faith of death grieving over death. Um, and I think sitting with the uncomfortableness when you just have that realization is the best thing that you can do right now in, in the world, what we're dealing with with, um, Folks are now under recognized, like there's racism. And then now you see all these like folks of color that were like, and this happened to me. And then this happened to me and this happened to me and this happened to me. And like, you're basically opening up a wound of your it's an onion. It's like what, um, Sandra Cisneros said, um, she had a great poem that I used to read when I was a teacher, um, which was called 11 and all these layers in, in all the conversations that you have, they all just build up. Um, and so I think it's okay to sit with it. If there's an issue with, um, mental health, your overall mental health, like you might have depression. Um, I mean, right now we're isolated, right. Um, we also are dealing with, um, uh, trauma at a very high level. I think it's really important to just sit with being uncomfortable. But if you have these particular, um, uh, things that you're dealing with with your mental health, you have to talk to someone. Um, and then talking about the financial side or the financial therapy side. Um, when I did have my podcasts, I had a financial therapist come on and talk. Um, and there aren't, it's a rising field, but the truth is is that if you had a counselor or if you have a, um, a mental health specialist, as you can talk to them about money, um, you can say, you know, I had this triggering event and, and, and, and this affected my entire money story and you can talk to someone about it, but yeah, it's very emotional. Um, and, and I don't think you can't take light of it just because it's pretty bad. Um, because we're uncovering a lot of stuff. And when I did the native American women story, um, it was the hardest to find interviews. It was the hardest to find, uh, information. Right. Um, and then the other thing was, uh, with that, a lot of women were dealing with the health issues were, so the mental health and health issues were so, uh, serious that, you know, you, you, I couldn't leave them hanging. Right. I couldn't just say, Oh man, we just found out like your grandmother got kidnapped and that's how she moved to California. And that's why you have like, um, like separation anxiety. Okay. Well now let's actually talk about this financial wellness plan. I couldn't leave them with, with feeling like they couldn't do anything. Um, and I, and I tried, it's particularly in the book to make folks feel okay because most people don't know what they're doing. Okay. We don't know what we're doing. And so it's either bad or someone brings it to cause it to our attention. Um, and so I just want folks to understand and kind of heal and sit with being uncomfortable. Cause I mean, I sat with this. I would tell even my fiance, like I got a book it's coming out, coming out, coming out, it took forever. Right. And I even wrote the, um, the part where we talked about mental health. I used to volunteer at a children's hospital in high school and it, cause I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Um, and also in college. And I wrote a paper about racial disparity in healthcare, um, in high school. And now I have the vocabulary to say really what the issues are. So it takes some time and you have to be okay with that.

Katie Utterback: 15:01

You know, I want to bring up what you just said too about, you know, something may have happened generations ago and it's still affecting you. Um, you're talking about descendents of the Holocaust was one, um, that descendants of the Holocaust would be more prone to anxiety disorders and their non Holocaust peers. And then, um, briefly mentioned it, but just all of the racial issues. It's not that they're surfacing now, but some people are now paying attention. Um, and even with that, I found that the average police shooting, so not even the ones that make the news will affect the mental health of black and people of color communities for at least three months. And I was thinking about that and I was thinking about the Corona virus, because that seems to be the one that it has affected the entire globe. And I was just thinking about myself and how frequently I was turning to Pinterest or online websites, just to try to put stuff in a cart to make myself feel better. And most of the time I was able to stop myself from completing the transaction. Uh, it's part of my debt free journey, but I was just thinking about all the people that like you're saying, like, you don't even know that this is happening to you or that this is still affecting your current being. What was that like for you when, when you learned that, that the generational trauma is still affecting people's financial decisions today?

Eugenie George: 16:30

Oh, thanks, Mason. I close the door, everybody, you know, we're all in the house together. Stay on. I'm sorry. Cause right. I'm sorry Katie. Cause what you said was really serious. Um, and we use laughter for our pain, right?

Katie Utterback: 16:44

Hey yes we do. We do.

Eugenie George: 16:46

Right. Um, and so with me personally, um, I had to deal with the fact and I talked about it in the book, um, of the feeling of being inferior to anyone that was white. Um, and, and going through that whole process was really hard. Right. Because you have to, you have to take yourself out of the scenario and say, okay, based off of these issues, there's white fragility. There's folks that don't understand it. Then you have, um, angry folks of color right now that it's like, well, this isn't enough. Right. Um, and so, uh, that is pretty hard. I mean, it's a hard overall thing. I think, you know, I've had 10 years of therapy I've uh, done yoga, all types of yoga, you know, hiked and had my like come to Jesus moment. So I'm, I'm okay with where I'm at. Um, I think what's cool about the book in particular is that, uh, the, that study that we've, we found with the Holocaust survivors or the Holocaust surviors in the, um, the studies it's actually, we don't have a money and mental health policy group in the United States, well, we have as a CFPB board, which is great, right? Cause they're able to teach you step by step what the problems were. But from that study, I just stumbled upon money and mental health policy in the UK. And that's how I was able to, to see how there's, there's differences with, um, trauma, um, how it can dramatically affect your mental health. If somebody, I don't know the exact statistic, but they say that, um, folks that have mental health issues are more likely to, um, have overdraft fees, um, or could, um, more likely commit suicide because of the money issues. And in the book I talk about, um, Michelle, which I don't disclose her name, but that was my friend from middle school. And you know, when you see her on paper, it's like she was a beautiful woman. Um, she was talking to Richard Branson, like just everything like an Instagram life. And so, so much of her, um, the trauma that she dealt with effected her money. She was making a lot of money and was, was giving it away to orphanages and refugee camps, which is great, you know, but she was not taking care of herself because she and I were even in, um, we took like a money class together. Right. Um, and so I think that was something that kept her up at night. Um, and I didn't, I don't know if she had issues with mental health and, but I mean, I, there there's a clear indication that we're, we're just not talking about it. And so.

Chase Peckham: 19:55

there was some kind of pain there,

Eugenie George: 19:57

there was a hundred percent pain, there was a hundred percent, um, like her, her, I believe her mother had, um, was an alcoholic. Right. And you know, we talked about Dax Shepard, you talk about those 12 steps. Like that's really important. Um, for folks I did debtors anonymous. Sometimes I I'll, I'll hop in a call, do debtors anonymous and also do, um, uh, under earners anonymous. Right. Cause right now I'm coming to, people are talking to me. Right. I had like, I'm getting like news sources to come and chat with me. And, and I'm like, well, when am I going to get paid? Cause this is doing a lot of work and the, when is the money gonna come? You know? And my fiance is always like, okay, where's the, where's the paycheck. And I'm like, yeah, okay. So even I have to go through this, this thing, it's like, wait, it's definitely coming. You know, the book is, is making sales. We just, I just got to keep doing this work for the next like month or so. So, um, but it is quite interesting. I

Katie Utterback: 21:06

That's, what I loved about your story Eugenie is just how honest and authentic you are, especially about manifestation and like those workshops and life coaches, because I feel very connected to you. I feel very similar to you because I like, it's hard when somebody is just like, Oh no, the money's there. You can spend it. It's fine. It's fine. Just manifest it. That's scary. Especially if you have a background where things didn't always pan out financially or something.

Eugenie George: 21:34

Oh yeah, yeah. And that's the hardest, Oh my gosh. Okay. So, um, 2015, I had moved to Austin and Austin as just like this entrepreneur space right now it's a hub where people are coming, flying in doing all of these different things. Um, and I met with all these folks that were living in Austin that were saying like go out there and be that I'd gone to Tony Robbins. I had done all of the things that you were supposed to do. Um, I had spent all my money and in my book, I talk about how I got evicted. I was like, dang, that happens so fast. Kind of like, not that I ever like nine to 10 months, I didn't even get to break. Like, Hey, we get to figure it out. So I'm glad that that was kind of like the shock. But, um, the, the thing that everyone kept telling me is to be life coach, they would say you're really good at being a life coach. Like why don't you go and pay to get certified to be life coach. And when I went to get the certification, which was like$5,000, so that's all my last little saving at that time. And so, um, I go in these classes and these half the women were half the folks were like Housewives. Um, half the folks were, you know, this was like their job paid for it. Right. So they can have like an additional income and no one looked like me. So, and then I did the life coaching and I was charging people with$500. And that was therapy. Like the folks that I was attracting was, were folks that really had to deal with their trauma. Right. They were not dealing with their trauma. You gotta manifest this, you gotta do this. And, and, and it's so funny. Cause even my coaches that I've purchased are now coming to me and they're like, you know, let's talk about this race thing because I'm having these problems, you know? But I'm like, yeah, cause you, you have to like, I am, I am unavoidable. Um, I have melanin. Right. And it doesn't matter where I go. Right. Even if I travel, I have to have a different framework. Um, and it's across the board. I've, I've gone to different countries. I've done a lot of different work. I've taught in Mississippi. People still have very skewed views of, of folks of color. And so for me to be like, go out there and manifest it. What I was doing was I was duplicating the stuff that I learned growing up in church, which was the prosperity gospel. Right. And that prosperity gospel, which is huge in the black church, it's huge in like evangelical churches. Um, doesn't really teach you money skills. And um, it's not so like, you know, downplay, uh, spirituality, but that is a man or female telling you that God's going to bless you. Like we used to say, my palms are itching, which means God's going to bring me money, you know? Um, and, uh, that happened, the prosperity gospel happened in like the early, the late 18 hundreds by some guys that just kinda like made it up. Right. And that's where our life coaching. A lot of the life coaching ideas come from. Yes I want you to think down the road it's possible, but you don't want to say like, think like Oprah, but you have to think like this is a compounding. You have to build the brand over a long period of time and you have to be patient with that. It's particularly when it comes to your money, you're going to keep having mistakes. Um, and you're going to have pitfalls. So it's important to be cognizant of that. Yeah.

Chase Peckham: 25:27

Very cognizant and not try to, um, make things happen too fast. Meaning if you're going after the quick buck, there's a pretty good chance that that's not going to manifest itself into longterm financial success. Uh, I think what you're doing is, is smart. You're, you're, you've done the research, you've done the work. It's great work. And it's going to flourish question for you and you kind of led it into this where you've traveled all over the world and Felipe. And I see it here in San Diego quite a bit. We have very multicultural, diverse communities here in San Diego. How much also of culture have you seen in your research plays into the way people handle their money as they grow older. And that, and we talked about Catholic guilt before you, as you, as you came on to the conversation, we were discussing our Catholic, uh, schooling. Um, how much of that plays a role in how people and how hard is it for them to break out of those patterns with the world we live in Currently

Eugenie George: 26:39

It affects you so much and you don't even recognize how, how big a deal it is. So, um, if we break it down into its a cultures, um, what I study well, when I studied Asian American cultures, uh, the big two things that were, I felt were detrimental to their, to folks as mental health was the idea of saving face, which is, um, it's a, could be a great positive impact, but it also can affect your mental health because, uh, the goal of saving face is to make sure that you're honoring the family. Right. And if you don't honor the family, the way that you would, that they agree with, you know, you can have a lot of issues of not feeling like you're enough or not being enough. Right. And, and, and that affects your money. And, you know, the, the big controversial thing that people love to say is like, yeah, there's the, you know, the tiger tiger moms they're doing great. And Asian women are doing incredibly well, um, in with their finances, their, their income, their, you know, they're crushing it with equal payday. And it's like, well, you know, you put 16 ethnicities into one group. It looks great. That's really cool that it looks amazing. What, imagine if someone who is, um, from a Hmong population and they're making 56 cents for every dollar, a white male makes that's going to be a pretty stressful thing that you can't achieve that, um, I don't think that that's fair. Um, and then the other piece is the saving, um, the saving face. And then the other one was the model minority myth, which was, um, which is like based off of your, um, uh, because of your culture, you're inherently smart. Right? Um, you, you did it, but I mean, even I took, I took my bonus kids to Kumon. I mean, I kind of have a, a very interesting view about Cumana anyways.

Speaker 5: 28:47

Um, but Kuman is literally a place where you have to work seven days a week. Right. You have to do math in English seven days a week, and that compounds, right. So it's like, it makes folks seem like they're smart. It's just a lot of compounded work. Yeah. Yeah. So I would, I just got so frustrated with that. Um, and one of the things that when I interviewed, um, some women, they said the problem was, was even when they were kids and they said their teachers would talk to them, they would, they wouldn't even, um, they wouldn't even like acknowledge. They wouldn't even acknowledge the fact that, um, that, uh, they needed help. So kids wouldn't even ask for help when they needed it because, or, and teachers would, would unconsciously by bypass them. Um, so I, I thought that that was really important too, to note, um, I already talked about, you know, native American, um, women in the culture, but, um, I mean, for me, the, the Latin X, um, culture, which is, you know, partially, it's also another 15, 16 ethnicity groups, everything into one group, which, you know, is, is frustrating.

Eugenie George: 30:09

Um, even that there was, um, and I think I'm going to say it wrong, but there it's called like, um,[inaudible], which is like quietest prettier. So like, just be quiet, you know, um, that idea, uh, most there's a lot of Latin X women who are the breadwinners, and if they are taught to be quiet, then that means they're not going to be taught to, to ask for equal pay. Right. So all of those things is a hundred percent affects your money. And there's so much unlearning and undoing that we have to do. I think we just have to be really careful with how we're were phrasing things and, and not beating ourselves up because no one knew no one knew what we were knowing. This is brand new. This is where I knew information. So, yeah.

Katie Utterback: 30:59

I like how you also included very subtle cultural examples. Like your dad drinking Coke. Cause that's another one that I felt connected to like my family that was just always Coke. There was just never Pepsi. And so like when I was growing up there was that it felt like a huge game all the time. It was like, are you Coke or Pepsi McDonald's or burger King. It was like this whole thing. And you kind of like go to a group of like minded things. And that just became like the family thing. Like there was never Pepsi at any family party that I went to.

Chase Peckham: 31:30

Right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Katie. No Coke, Pepsi. Saturday Night Live reference. Sorry I had to do it. She broke her cheeseburger, cheeseburger c'mon it just was sitting there laying right there. I had to, sorry. I just completely threw us off.

Eugenie George: 31:53

My, my fiance was just saying, he was like, you know, your dad is going to be so happy when he marries, when we get married. I said why? And he was like, because my, his brother, his younger brother works for Coca-Cola. Things like that. Then she just go, what? Like, this is crazy. Exactly. No, these patterns, you just keep repeating. Even my partner who has two children, it's like my parents, both of my parents are, um, have, um, too, they, they like my, their sisters, their siblings have different fathers and it's just sort of a thing. And I just swooped into that, like, Oh yeah. That's, that's just what we do. Not recognizing that, Oh, that's a pattern that my, my family, everybody has, you know?

Chase Peckham: 32:50

Well, and that just goes that exactly what you just said. And it goes for so many things, including money. And we cause kids watch and they see the surroundings, not just their families, but their friends, their friends, parents, their, their neighborhood. They, they, they watch all that. And you only know what you know. And so you bring that as you grow older, unless you are actively looking for something else, you're going to repeat what you've seen and known and learned. And that's why it for, for people that, you know, how are you supposed to know that there's another world, unless you go looking for it. And so that's why people need to find your book. That's why they need to find their different path, that there are different ways. And that goes for all of us.

Eugenie George: 33:36

Yeah. I mean, my hope is to get the next book will just be an overall money and mental health, uh, probably book. Um, of course I always want to do women of color, um, which is going to be great to write about and do all of that. But, um, a lot of the stories that I, I, I had was just, uh, a huge chunk of a lot of folks. And, you know, like, um, we were just talking about like chase was talking about with them. I grew up in California too. And I remember celebrating Chinese new year. I remember having a red envelope. I remember that, that significance. I remember my aunt, like Faye telling you that's not a real name, but we'll call her on Fe like telling me that I have to break out with this guy. Cause he's not making any money. Like I remember a certain conversation with adults who didn't look like me and they would just say something or even my family, those patterns. And so, um, yeah, I really wanted to write a book that was unique, which it sucks, you know, some time, but, um, I was like, okay, we're on, I'm onto something. So let's just keep exploring those ideas.

Chase Peckham: 34:56

If you could, before we go and wrap this up, could you, without giving away your book, give us kind of a, at least an abbreviated version of one of the stories of one of the women that you interviewed and not only the story like it is in the book, but how that, how it affected you, um, while, while you were doing it and then maybe how you looked at it retrospectively.

Eugenie George: 35:21

Yeah. Um, so, um, I interviewed this woman named Carmen. I don't know, this is a PG, uh,

Chase Peckham: 35:29

you can take it all the way. Okay. Um, cause little fricking rip. Yeah.

Eugenie George: 35:35

Yeah. Okay, cool. I just say that because it's traumatic and if somebody was driving and they had their kids, then they would, they might,

Chase Peckham: 35:45

well, here's the disclaimer: if you are in the car right now and your kids are with you, shut it down for another time.

Eugenie George: 35:51

Right. Um, okay. So, uh, one of the stories that I had was Carmen, um, and she, um, was Mexican or she is Mexican American. Um, but she has like indigenous cultures. Um, but her story was, she, uh, was in, she grew up in, I believe San Diego actually, uh, was undocumented and, um, and one of her siblings had a mental health issue or that's something I had to do or disability. Um, and so she was in charge of taking care of a lot of folks. Um, and she also was in charge of handling the money and I, and I said, well, what type of money are you handling? And she was like, you know, I had to perform for my son, my dad. And I said, well, what does that even mean? And she was like, I got raped as a child. I said, well, how long did that last? And she's like, you know, from like two to 12, um, and this woman is a college graduate, six making six figures, like you would never is married and you would never know that she had that much trauma going on in her life. Um, that's why even this, this new conversation that we're having with, with race and class, it's like, I know everybody's upset. I, I get it a hundred percent, but none of us truly understand other people's trauma yet. We really don't get it yet. And, and, you know, I think we should be cognizant of that. Um, so she, uh, never told anybody that story before, right. Not even her husband. Um, and so I felt honored to share her story. And then a year later after we talked, she started telling people first story, she just started posting on Instagram, um, posting it on a, um, a Facebook, everything cause she had a podcast. And, um, I think that was kind of like the, um, the, the big thing was that she didn't, um, she didn't, uh, like have the language to talk about what was wrong. It also had to deal with her, her parent, her, um, her father and her that hasn't, that's a different relationship that you have. Right. And the idea of a father probably affected how she was going to, who she was going to marry. Right. Um, and, and trying not to be, you know, her partner be like her father. Right. Um, so for me, that was the hardest story. And, and at first I put it in the back of the book, uh, because I was like, this is too dramatic. Um, I'm going to put this in like the financial wellness thing and put a disclaimer and that story I had to sit with for a whole year and for me to sit through it, then I had to say, okay, if she's being dishonest with me, then I have to be as honest as possible as I possibly can, um, without not being disrespectful to my family. So that was kinda like the, um, the big thing. Right. Cause I, I was talking, I talked about my dad's side of the family's trauma. I haven't even, probably the next book will be my mom's. Right. And I'm just terrified of that. But like, I think that was the thing it's like, I sat with that interview. I replayed it over and over again and I cried. I had to really come to terms with it. And now, I mean, she's at the point where she is, we found like a financial therapist for her. She was doing a lot of, um, it, she was getting interested in, in Dave Ramsey and stuff like that. And I said, that is not the, like, I, you know, I respect what he's doing, but that's not, you don't need a father figure telling you what to do. You need a financial therapist to kind of carry you through this process that you're going to go through. So we found Barry Tesler, um, who has a book called the art of money. And so I think she's gonna go into the art, um, the money, the yearlong money school, um, and, and talk to women about that. But, but yeah, that was the hardest one, but honestly, a lot, all their stories, everybody cried. And I was the one that couldn't cry at the times for the most part. Um, but she was the only interview that I actually cried the, the longest, the hardest.

Chase Peckham: 40:43

Did you have to go through your own therapy after this book, just from all the traumatic experiences and stories that you had?

Eugenie George: 40:50

No, I was going to therapy the first, the first year. Um, and then the second year, all I was writing this, I was fine. Or maybe I think I'm fine that, but, um, the I'm now trying to, I'm basically doing the grief recovery handbook. Um, and I think I'm probably going to work with the grief coach on this, but, um, I'm losing who I was in the past. So because I'm losing that person, I need to like shed that, um,

Chase Peckham: 41:27

it is that you're doing that on purpose. I mean, a lot of people don't, they have that guilt of letting go of who they are or where they come from. Um, and, and that can be just internal or that can be from, you know, like your family or things like that. Is that something in inside you that you want to shed the old you and,

Eugenie George: 41:51

Well, you're always going to have patterns that, that make you who you are. Right. I always was supposed to be in finance because when I was eight, I said, you know, I need to learn how to golf because that's where business deals were being made. There's always that person, uh, there was always that that girl that had is like a little old lady, right? Like I've always been like, I used to read, um, the beanie baby magazine. I would buy it and laugh at people that bought beanie babies. Like I would say, this is the dumbest thing, you know? So, um, yeah, I think there's still gonna be parts of me that are me, but I think shedding the inferiority and shedding that loss of faith, I think in particular, um, for me, I'm not like that I've rejected religion or anything, but the loss of faith in the prosperity since, right. I can't keep saying that God's going to bless me. And you know, I have to think of spirituality in a different way. Yeah.

Chase Peckham: 43:00

That's it, God's given you the abilities to make your own path is the way I got it. God's not going to make a miraculous. He's not going to do for you, what you won't do for yourself.

Eugenie George: 43:10

Right. And that's a really hard, um, thing. Cause my, my family, they are from the South, like God fearing folks. So even the language that I have to say to them is going to is different. Um, and, and I've never been disrespectful to them when it comes to faith. And now I'm at the point where I have to say, like, I don't agree with that. Um, and that's difficult. I've never, I have never been disrespectful in their eyes when it comes to spirituality. Um, I mean maybe when they read the book, there'll be like, but, um, but yeah. Um, I, yeah, so, so I'm just trying to be open to different scenarios and I'm kind of playing those out. My, my brain.

Chase Peckham: 44:04

So Eugenie, uh, our money stories, where can people find it? Uh, because they need it, especially if you're a woman you need to read this book. I was, and being a white male, I was still, I was absolutely in, in the few chapters I read, I was, I was hooked and maybe it has something to do with what I do for a living. And, and just so it's in my kind of wheelhouse, but the in VI, Especially the idea of your money habits is it's fantastic. Research. People have gotta read it.

Eugenie George: 44:39

Yeah. I mean, if you just type in our money stories, it's on Amazon. And eventually we're going to get to the paper back with, um, with, uh, another, an independent seller. Cause, um, you know, if you want to do book clubs and different things like that, or Barnes and noble, you got to have a non Amazon. So hopefully they'll be out by Friday. You know, it's a work in progress. As we know, I'm constantly having to change things literally every day. So that'll be the hope. And then, um, next month, uh, in July we'll have the audio book version of it.

Chase Peckham: 45:22

That was just my next question. That's fantastic.

Eugenie George: 45:27

So in July, we'll, we'll have the audio book, but uh, yeah. It's all working.

Chase Peckham: 45:31

Are you doing the voiceover?

Eugenie George: 45:33

I don't know. I don't think so. I, I thought about, yeah, I thought about doing it. Um, I don't think so though. I think we're going to, I'm going to get someone a voiceover, but you know, not ready for that.

Chase Peckham: 45:48

Thank you so much for joining talk wealth to me. We had a blast. You've got a great energy.

Eugenie George: 45:54

Thanks so much. I appreciate all of you.

Katie Utterback: 45:55

Yeah. Thank you. Bye. Bye