Family "Vacations": Helping our Kids Out of Their Comfort Zones

Summary

The conversation revolves around the topic of family vacations and the balancing different interests within the family dynamic, the impact of technology on children's engagement with outdoor activities and the importance of creating memories and exposing children to new experiences. The conversation highlights the role of parents in introducing their passions to their children and the potential for kids to develop their own interests as they grow older. We discuss the importance of pushing oneself out of their comfort zone and experiencing new things as well as the value of outdoor activities and nature in finding peace and slowing down. They also touch on the challenges of parenting and finding the balance between pushing children to try new things and respecting their preferences. Overall, the conversation highlights the benefits of stepping outside of one's comfort zone and the importance of finding joy and fulfillment in new experiences.

Transcript

it's been a little while since the three of us have been together. And I am currently in the throes of spring break, which is, as you can tell, I'm grayer and have less hair.

Brian Blackburn (00:23.312)
What have you been doing, Chase? How's the spring break treating you?

Chase Peckham (00:28.99)
Well, we, we, my kids have two weeks at spring break, so we are currently in week two. Uh, and, and I am now at the place cause my daughter was on her East coast trip, uh, with her eighth grade class. So it's like the eighth grade go us history. They, they went to, uh, Washington, DC, uh, Philadelphia, uh, spent an afternoon in Amish country and then spent a final couple of days in New York city. And, uh, she got back in immediately.

was like, I'm bored and I want to hang out with my friends and I want to go to the beach and I want to do everything else. My son, who is kind of a bump on the log, perfectly happy with sitting around, not doing a lot. So on the other end, I have to push him and get him to go do stuff and not just sit and play his video games all day. So, and in the between, yes, they're both extremes that drive me nuts. And by the way, I have to work.

Brian Blackburn (01:19.248)
So they're both on different extremes that drive you crazy.

Chase Peckham (01:28.19)
which is also fun and trying to explain to them that the world doesn't revolve around their schedules has been fun for me.

Brian Blackburn (01:35.12)
Yeah, but now you have, I mean, Clay's got a car, right?

Chase Peckham (01:39.39)
Not well, kinda, but I have to be with him to drive at this point. He doesn't actually have his license yet. He has his permit or permit. So I kind of have to be there for that. Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (01:42.704)
Oh, I did not know.

Brian Blackburn (01:48.528)
Gotcha, gotcha. Okay.

Phil (01:51.097)
See, you still there. It's same as you take same time commitment as when you had to drive them yourself. Maybe even more of a time commitment.

Brian Blackburn (01:55.376)
Mmm.

Chase Peckham (01:57.694)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (01:59.696)
I knew that but didn't know that. I forgot about that. I thought he was able to drive now by himself, but that makes sense. So yeah, you're still screwed. You're still screwed.

Chase Peckham (02:00.734)
Yes.

Chase Peckham (02:06.846)
Yeah, not quite yet. Yeah, yeah, not quite yet. So anyway, it's, I mean, it's been nice. At least we have nice weather again. And I did take Avery to the beach and that was fun. But, you know, I'm dealing with this kind of stuff where, you know, some of my kids' classmates are on these really awesome vacations at spring break and that kind of thing. And they're like, well,

How come, you know, we're at home and I'm like, dude, you just got back from an East coast trip. And by the way, you were in Vegas the weekend before in volleyball and we're leaving for Salt Lake City this week. You can, are you kidding me? It doesn't grow on trees here.

Brian Blackburn (02:46.096)
By the way, she probably travels more than anybody.

Phil (02:47.001)
I was going to say, didn't I just see you in Vegas, Chase?

Chase Peckham (02:50.014)
You're right!

Chase Peckham (02:54.974)
Yeah, you and I ran into each other, which was really fun. That was the beginning of your little spring break vacation with your family. And I saw a lot of the pictures and it made me think a lot, Phil, of, you know, I saw you did a lot of hiking. So give us a little feedback on, and I'm starting to see a pattern here on the Arevalo family vacations. There's a lot of national parks involved.

Phil (03:11.289)
I did.

Phil (03:18.745)
Hehehehehe

There is and you know, we, my kids also have two weeks of spring break. So we took the first week of their spring break and did a road trip, which I love. Um, and then we turned it into a national parks trip again. Uh, initially we were going to do Bryce and Zion, but the week before Bryce Canyon got like a foot of snow, it was going to be highs in the forties and my kids don't do well with that temperature. And honestly, I'd rather not deal with those temperatures either.

So we switched it up. We ended up doing Joshua tree and then stopped by Vegas, uh, before heading up to Zion. And that's where I bumped into you. Um, and then on the way back did, uh, death Valley, which I'd never been to. And it, no, we were only in death Valley for a day. So we did a lot of the drives, um, like artists point, and then we did the bad water basin where they have the mostly mud, but lake that doesn't usually there.

Chase Peckham (04:03.742)
Did you see Scotty's castle?

Chase Peckham (04:08.798)
Okay.

Phil (04:20.761)
Um, lost a hat and then someone retrieved it way down the way. And then I almost, I lost a shoe in the mud, but I found it. Um, it was, it was fun. And there was a couple of complaints, you know, I've, I've been a hiker for a long time. So I try to keep the hiking to very reasonable levels, both for Sarah and the boys, but there was definitely a couple of times where, uh, the little one was, we're hiking how far?

Chase Peckham (04:30.398)
Sounds like an awesome trip.

Phil (04:50.937)
And it doesn't matter what distance you give him. You can say half a mile. He'll be like, yeah, half a mile. Are you kidding me? Same reaction if you say five miles. The distance isn't there. So I have to like break it down with things that he knows. It's like walking.

Brian Blackburn (05:05.456)
Phil, remind everybody how old the kids are, the boys.

Phil (05:09.753)
Oh, mine are 10 and five. So, um, my 10 year old Barrington loves, he'll complain up until when we start hiking and then he's all about it. Uh, except for when it was cold and then he complained about how cold it was the whole time. Um, the little one has periods where he's all about it and other periods where he's like, I'm tired, I'm done. Um, so I have to put it all into his perspective.

You know, how far are we? Oh, it's less than one Cal's Mountain, buddy. And anyone who hikes in San Diego has heard of Cal's Mountain. You know, it's a very popular hike. So that's kind of how I, in his mind, it's shorter than Cal's Mountain, buddy. And that's how I measure it. Okay, that's not that bad. I've done that one. But we have, we got FitBits. And then I realized he takes a lot more steps than...

than those steps that I did to do the same distance. Because he's got those short little legs. So yeah, so then I try to keep that in mind. Like he's walking a lot more steps than I am on a regular basis when we're out on these eggs.

Chase Peckham (06:10.142)
Yeah, it's got those teeny little legs, yeah.

Brian Blackburn (06:20.272)
How far can the little five -year -old go?

Phil (06:24.281)
Um, he's he's done like uh cows here. That's about three miles one of the days Um at the end of the day my Fitbit said we'd done a cumulative of nine miles um so Yeah Yeah

Brian Blackburn (06:37.488)
Damn, that's impressive. That's super. Have you always been into hiking? Okay.

Chase Peckham (06:39.902)
That is impressive. That's a lot for a little kid.

Phil (06:45.625)
I have. I used to hike a ton more before kids when I had a lot more free time. Our goal this year as a family is 25 hikes. I've lost count of the tally. I haven't tallied these ones, but I think we're going to get to it. There was a time I was doing like 75, 50 hikes a year. That was before kids though.

Brian Blackburn (06:57.552)
That's awesome.

Brian Blackburn (07:11.024)
That's something I never got into hiking. And I'm in some of the chase I appear or some near some of the best trails. I mean, you probably know you you probably know them best. But I've even I have done that. But like I said, we just don't do a lot like I like I've actually always I guess I'm not I'm not too into it personally. But like, you know, trying to push myself outside my comfort zone. I've actually suggested if we don't have anything to do like, hey, let's go on a hike. And my kids want no part of that.

Chase Peckham (07:12.158)
I was laughing. Me neither. Well, uh -uh.

Phil (07:14.553)
No?

Phil (07:20.441)
Yes, I'm... Yeah.

Chase Peckham (07:22.814)
Yeah, potato chip rock and all that.

Phil (07:24.665)
You've never done potato chip rock?

Chase Peckham (07:28.35)
I have.

Phil (07:28.409)
Okay.

Brian Blackburn (07:40.752)
Zero. Zero point zero.

Chase Peckham (07:43.326)
Yeah, and that's what made me think of what I wanted to talk about today was, Felipe, I was just absolutely dying in the pictures on social media that you were posting, because it brought me back to my childhood and my parents were, my dad was a freaking Eagle Scout, Boy Scout guy, like Eagle Scout's about as high as it can get. And he would take us as little kids. I mean, the reason I know Death Valley and Scotty's Castle is because

We went on vacations there. My parents were all about the hiking and four -wheeling. My dad was into like western books, cowboy books and stuff. So he knew all of this California history and would take us everywhere. My brother and I would be like, oh God, again. We're going to go, hey guys, it's going to be fun. We're going to go find this fort that the Indians, you know, and all this stuff, the history. You get there and there's like a couple of rocks and they're like, that's it.

Phil (08:24.153)
Yeah.

Phil (08:42.681)
We did walk to some ruins in Joshua Tree. It was like old mine. And I did give them the preface ahead of time. Like, don't expect anything beautiful. This is ruins. This is a building was there. You can kind of tell, but now like, this is it. I'm like, yeah, that was.

Chase Peckham (08:47.07)
You

Chase Peckham (08:57.63)
Right.

Brian Blackburn (08:59.856)
So Chase, is that why you maybe don't hike anymore? Did you not enjoy it as a kid?

Chase Peckham (09:05.598)
I was having that discussion with my father the other day. I have now, I'm able at the ripe old age of 52 to like be honest with my dad and let him know I hated it. And I want no part of it. Cause he asked me like, how come you don't give your kids go hiking and all that stuff as much. And I said, well, we go local hiking and stuff. And he's like, but you guys don't go anywhere like Joshua tree, for instance, like Felipe, there are plenty of times.

I said, dad, I only have so much time off and only so much time I get to spend with the kids. And, uh, and Carrie and I, when, when she was alive, you know, we together, neither of us liked the cold for one. And both of us had in our minds, we liked vacations that were by a body of water where we could wear bathing suits and no, and we could have little umbrellas in our cups when we were having, you know, and we would.

Brian Blackburn (09:53.424)
Oh, Carrie, yeah, Carrie, yeah. Carrie's not into hiking.

Brian Blackburn (10:00.272)
Yes.

Chase Peckham (10:02.878)
And for our kids, we would do lots of snorkeling, tons of boating. They would see all kinds of stuff. But it was about time, and we didn't have a ton of it. And so my kids, especially now, are in all kinds of sports. So you're limited in all the different kinds of things that you can do. And you have to choose sometimes. And what you're going to get your kids

involved in and what you're going to introduce your kids to. And yet at the same time, Phil, I know that I don't love the hiking and the camping and all that stuff, but I do have fond memories of it.

Phil (10:45.785)
That's kind of what I'm aiming for. I don't know if they'll become hikers. Um, I, but hopefully they, they go, you know, I did not enjoy that all the time, but I'm glad I did it. Um, I told them we were, as we were doing the walk up to where the narrows starts in, in Zion and we saw the people with the waiters and getting ready to venture into river crossings and things like that. I told him like, we're going to do this. We're going to do this in about seven years. That's the goal.

And the little one was like, why seven years? Well, because at that point you'll be 12, you'll be tall enough and Barrington will be 17. I could still legally force him to go. So that's, that's why they call it seven.

Brian Blackburn (11:22.288)
Yeah, he might want to go. Yeah, but Phil, I think it's a I think it's great, Phil, because number one, you're passionate about it. And I think that's you know, Chase is obviously passionate about sports. He grew up in the sports world. I didn't know about the hiking stuff with your dad. That's pretty good. But I think it's just important that you pass your passion along and then they could decide. But at the end of the day, they're going to remember the memories, even though Chase didn't maybe thoroughly enjoy.

The hiking, the laughs, the times with his mom and dad and his brother are going on. And man, hiking is healthy. You're getting outside. It's cheap. It's free. It's great family time. And at the end of the day, you're getting super good exercise. So I think it's a great hobby or whatever you want to call it, but I think it's a great way to, and you get to explore, yeah, you get to explore some of the most beautiful places in the world.

Chase Peckham (12:11.902)
It's healthy for sure.

Chase Peckham (12:17.886)
Yeah, I agree 100%. And that's what made me think of it is we drag along our kids to do certain things. And at the same time, I was thinking, you know, even though I don't love the hiking and the camping and all that stuff, it's still probably something I should introduce my kids to and let them decide for themselves if they like it or not. But again, it comes down to time. And it made me also think of how many things have we done through our lives that, you know, we

we need to make our kids go do something even though they probably don't want to. And the one thing, obviously we talk about this a lot, but the one thing that our kids have today that we didn't have at all is these little devices that are with them 24 seven. And they get a lot of entertainment out of that. And the most entertainment that we got if we weren't outside was a TV that had maybe 15 channels, right? We didn't, that was it, maybe four, you know, I mean, shoot, depending on how old we are.

Phil (13:12.409)
Right.

Chase Peckham (13:16.926)
Cable didn't come in until much later, but these kids, how much do you have, do we need to force them to do things versus, oh, let them decide for themselves?

Phil (13:31.001)
Yeah, the tablets definitely come into play and as we're driving to some of these longer things, we do give them pretty much have added access on their, on their tablets. But we have the rule when we get to the national park for driving through it, you got to put it down. Um, that's it. We're here, put it down. Plus if I say guys look around, you better put the thing down and look around because you're going to miss something. Um, and they're pretty good about it, but you're right. There's that draw like.

Like, oh, Ignacio, as we were preparing for it, I showed him a couple of videos and he recognized one of the locations from an Instagram video and he said, this is the one we saw on the videos. And he was, that might've been the most excited he got when he realized he was at a spot that he had seen in an Instagram video. This is interesting that, you know, of all the things that he could have gotten excited about seeing was seeing a spot that he saw on a video by some random person online.

But you know, we put them through I put them through the hikes But there was this one part where there's this there's a picture on it on that video that I did chase where we climbed up this really steep Giant rock oh I was that was after It was altitude along with the fact that it was really steep And I that was not my idea. I we were at the bottom looking at it and I thought that was cool and we saw an older couple go up

Chase Peckham (14:39.006)
You were breathing a little heavy by the way, which was really, I'm like, oh God, does he want to keep going?

Phil (14:57.273)
And I was like, man, those guys are like abuela and abuelos age, my parents. And then they're like, oh, and they can do it. Yeah, and they can do it. And then Barrington was like, I could do it. And I was like, yeah, it's a little steep. And so I asked Ignacio, do you want to do it? And he said, well, I'll leave it up to you. I was like, if you don't leave it up to me, the answer is always going to be yes, we're climbing. So we.

He said, all right, let's do it. And Sarah said, no, thank you. I will wait for you guys at the bottom. I do not want to fall on day one at Zion. And so we climbed up the steep thing. Once I was up there, I realized there was an easier way down and up on the other side. But it was just, you know, that little, I think seeing the ending point got them excited about it and seeing the challenge and saying, yes, let's do it. So maybe just maybe they will.

at some point say, you know, drag me onto a hike where I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that one. Yeah, we'll see.

Chase Peckham (16:02.238)
That's something they'll never forget. That will be a story that they will remember and the mountain will get larger and larger and larger every time they tell the story. Yeah. And like I said, I've got very fond memories of all that stuff. And like Brian mentioned earlier, I have, you know, my family, when I was a kid, I have no complaints. I mean, I literally had the best parents.

Phil (16:09.465)
Right. They tell the story.

Chase Peckham (16:28.254)
My brother and I have a great relationship. We spent a lot of time together. I might not have loved the activity that we might have done, but I did love the time together. And I did love those memories. I just, I didn't love the setting up the tent and waking up with a air mattress that was flat or pine bows sticking in my back.

Or my father taking me on a snipe hunt when there absolutely is no such thing as a snipe. I didn't I didn't love that

Brian Blackburn (16:58.321)
I've learned that too.

Phil (16:59.321)
They, you know, I follow a couple of the news people on the social media, some of the news anchors here in San Diego and Raul from Fox five just posted a video. I think yesterday he was at Joshua tree and they were doing glamping. So maybe that's what you need to do. Chase. Like you could rent an airstream and you're still out there. You can still go hike a little during the day, but then you come back to not a tent. You're not building a tent. You're not, that might be a,

Chase Peckham (17:16.638)
Glamping is better.

Chase Peckham (17:26.718)
Yes, I am. I'm a big camper about the beach. I love the beach. Like if you were to camp like in a big old RV right next to the beach, I'm good with that or a lake or something where there's water.

Brian Blackburn (17:27.28)
Yeah, I think...

Brian Blackburn (17:36.464)
Yes. So my answer to your question, Chase, is this is I think because of the lack of time you do as a dad and a parent, you do what you are most passionate about and you make the kids do that. Right. Because you don't have a lot of time as we talked about. So you show them what you love because you have to be happy. So you do that. You push them outside their comfort zone. And then when they become older, they are going to decide what they're what they love, what their passions are. But I think, you know, it's

Chase Peckham (18:02.59)
Right.

Brian Blackburn (18:05.648)
we've talked about this with sports or anything. It's like, until you know what you let, you don't know what you do or do not like. So I think pushing your kids for the first few times, especially at the younger ages is super critical. And then after that, as they get older, they're gonna find their lane and they're gonna find their things. But the memories will always be there, you know? And I would say just, you know, cause Phil is so passionate about it. They're gonna see the joy. I'm sure the, the...

you know, Chase, if you and I took our kids camping, they would not see the joy in us. It would not be. I can't put up a can. I couldn't put up a tent. I couldn't, you know, I have no desire for that. So I mean, I did some camping as a kid too.

Phil (18:35.513)
Hehehehehe

Chase Peckham (18:36.222)
No, they would not.

Chase Peckham (18:43.454)
All they would remember is cussing and frustration, which yeah, I mean, a hundred percent. It's funny, we were having the conversation just a couple of days ago. My kids are friends that are growing skiing and my kids, I grew up in the mountains. I grew up skiing since I was five years old. I was on a race team. I did all kinds of that, water skiing, snow skiing. And my kids have never been snow skiing. In fact, my kids have seen...

Brian Blackburn (18:46.992)
Right.

Chase Peckham (19:10.878)
the snow maybe twice in their life and I have a home up in the mountains. And the question I always get is how come you guys don't go skiing? And well, one, I will tell you when, again, I'll go back to Carrie when she was like, again, time is valuable. And Carrie lived on the East coast forever. She hated cold weather and hated the snow. And so it just wasn't something, and by the way, Southern California,

Brian Blackburn (19:15.536)
That's crazy.

Chase Peckham (19:40.158)
You never know when it's going to snow anyway. And when it does, the whole world goes up there. So learning how to ski in Southern California is a mess. But it was just one of those things, again, that we, I didn't really, she didn't want to enjoy. And those times that we did want to do, we wanted to go to Hawaii or we wanted to go to Mexico or something that was, you know, adventurous that way. But it was typically in a warm climate. But I still feel guilty that my kids still haven't done that. And yet.

I, as you said, I don't, I don't know if I should cause eventually, and it's a cost factor. It's not cheap to do these things.

Brian Blackburn (20:14.16)
Yeah, no, but remember, but yeah, but remember to like, like, you know, I did like back when I was growing up, I did, you know, we do some camping as well. We'd have fun. We would do fishing. You know, it was great times, great memories. But my point is, like, I think what happens, though, is, you know, I didn't even see outside like I didn't see anything in this country hardly because, you know, all of our church, my mom was born and raised in Ireland. So every.

Chase Peckham (20:31.07)
Another thing I can't stand.

Brian Blackburn (20:42.672)
two years, we would go to Ireland for the whole summer. So that was our family budget, right? So until I got older and met different friends is when I finally started seeing different parts of the, of this country, you know? So I think what happens too is as the kids get exposed to new friends and as they grow up, they're gonna start being invited. Like all of a sudden, you know, maybe one of Avery's friends is gonna invite her to the snow, right? Like, you know, when she's now getting older. So she's like, oh, I got invited to go to Big Bear or Mammoth, you know? And so I think you start getting exposed.

Chase Peckham (20:47.678)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (21:12.432)
in your different worlds. And then they're gonna and also Navy might go, Oh man, this is amazing. I love skiing. So then, you know, then she'll she'll take that on. So I think, you know, you because of the time, the money, and all the stuff we've just talked about at the end of the day, you do what you you love to do. And your family, your kids are going to join you, which is the right way. And then as they grow and get older and expose themselves to more things, they're going to find new passions. And they'll also keep a lot of the passions that you know, we were

Chase Peckham (21:13.502)
Yes.

Chase Peckham (21:18.558)
Right.

Brian Blackburn (21:42.)
born and raised with. So, you know, I think and that's what's great about living, right? It's like just being exposed to different groups of people and different interests. And you know, and she might be an avid skier five years from now, you never know, right? Like you just never know. So.

Phil (21:57.209)
Yeah. Same Brian. I think growing up, I didn't really get to do too much venturing in. I mean, I'd never been to Joshua tree until last week. Uh, and that's, you know, three miles up the, up the road. Um, our family vacations trips when we did them were down into Mexico where my parents are from. So that was, you know, I never made it past Tucson.

Uh, because then you'd go down, drive down from there. So we did road trips into Mexico. We traveled into Mexico. I'd spend time down in Mexico with my grandparents and things, but I never got to go. Like I never had an opportunity. I never went national parks. We would camp, but it was here in, you know, Cuyamaca or Julian area. So it was a local thing. So that's where I like got the camping in, but I didn't get to travel to all the national parks. So, you know, now it's like, I think I got a bug.

Brian Blackburn (22:48.112)
Yeah, but they taught but your parents taught you and I think another good theme is your parents taught you adventure, right? Like I was on airplanes, you know, since the day I was born, I was flying to cross the world to Ireland, right? So we love to travel, right? So it's like we're still traveling, but we you know, maybe people are just doing a little bit different things. So it's like you taught them adventure like chase, you know, obviously, I know Clay and every very well, like they love doing things they love being adventurous. So.

Phil (22:48.569)
And it's like, let's go, let's check them all out.

Phil (22:54.713)
Right.

Brian Blackburn (23:13.712)
it's still at the big theme of things that they're, they're traveling. They just might be doing a little bit of different things, right? Yeah, just different style of travel or different style of adventure. So, um, but I'm a big believer that, you know, you force a young age. Like if you're passionate about something, they join your world. You don't join theirs. And that's one of my good friend, Walt told me when I first had my kids is like, whatever you love to do, they're going to join you. Uh, and you know, you open and expose them, uh, to as much adventure and stuff.

Phil (23:19.609)
different style. Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (23:43.472)
You know, and that's a joyful, joyful stuff.

Chase Peckham (23:47.806)
That was the best advice I ever got from Walt too. He was, thank goodness he was years ahead of us in that way. And I a hundred percent believe that, cause they're gonna draw that love of things because they can tell how much you love what you're doing. And again, we come to time. So how many times I've had to explain to my kids of like, what do you want to give up to go do this? Do you not want to go see your uncle Mike in North Carolina or in Florida? Do you, you know, well, no, we don't want to.

not see them. Well, okay, that's a week out of our life that we can't, we got to, you know, we only get so many weeks of vacation and time a year. Do you want to give up volleyball? Like I tell that to Avery all the time. You want to go do all these things? You don't have to play volleyball anymore because if you don't play volleyball, I tell you what, that opens up a whole world because you know what? You have seen this entire country a few times because of volleyball, right? You're going to places that most people don't go, but you don't look at it as a vacation.

You look at it as you're playing volleyball and that's fine except that it's travel all the same. So vacation -wise, hotels, plane flights, the whole thing, eating out, you know, because we obviously can't cook there, it all adds up and it's all taking time. And it's the same thing and money and money.

Brian Blackburn (25:06.)
And money and money and they, you know, there's, she's just at an age where she should start now understanding. Yeah. Just like Brynn, they're slowly understanding money. They don't totally grasp it all. But, you know, like you said earlier, it doesn't grow on trees. I mean, these trips, like even a little trip to Vegas is going to be, you know, too grand. I mean, by the time you add everything up, you know, it's, it's good. So they, she has to, you know, the kids also have to understand that like, yeah.

Chase Peckham (25:18.302)
Right.

Chase Peckham (25:30.878)
And we flew.

Brian Blackburn (25:36.336)
money is just, it adds adds up even on these smaller trips. So like you said, if you gave up one thing, then that would free up not just time, but it would also free up a ton of money to do other things. If you're passionate about this other stuff.

Chase Peckham (25:45.438)
Money. Correct. Yeah.

Phil (25:47.257)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think for me and in my situation, one of the big unsung heroes, Sarah, because this is not her type of travel. Her type of travel was going down to Mexico on a beach, Ireland, London. That's what she does. The travel that she did as an adult and not a hiker. But she said, OK, let's give this a try. And now I think she's gotten to the point where as long as I keep the hikes.

to a relatively doable distance. She's all about it because she's getting to see all these places. And, you know, we got to do like a little ranger talk in Joshua Tree and just follow the little ranger around and they did a little loop. And it was actually at a place called Caprock, which made me think of you, Chase. And it's just a little loop, half a mile at most.

Brian Blackburn (26:36.848)
Hehehe.

Chase Peckham (26:37.31)
I know I've heard of it myself. Yeah.

Phil (26:43.033)
But they had a little ranger talk and they explained the geography and the geology of it all. And now she's like, you know what, I like these little trips. Although we don't do camping when we do our road trips. We stay at hotels and that's why we bumped into Chase and a cabin. Yeah, that's my compromise. Exactly.

Brian Blackburn (26:57.712)
That's your compromise. There's your compromise, yeah.

Chase Peckham (27:00.223)
I was going to say Las Vegas is probably one of the larger national parks and one of the more beautiful national parks.

Phil (27:05.945)
We bumped into a lot of people who actually were not from our area or Southern California, Southern Nevada, Utah area, from other parts of the country. And Las Vegas was their starting point. So they fly into Vegas, they rent a car. And then from there, you can get three hours to Zion, three hours to Grand Canyon, you can go to Death Valley. So they, a lot of the people who are doing outdoorsy things with us that I talked to from other parts of the country.

Chase Peckham (27:26.366)
Right.

Phil (27:35.705)
were staying in Vegas. And that's when they fly into the big airport in Vegas. There's obviously plenty of rooms and they rent a car and then they do their outdoors adventures. And then at the end of the night, work their way back to Vegas. So it was kind of funny that a lot of the people who were not staying for multiple days, pretty much all of them were staying in Vegas.

Brian Blackburn (27:55.856)
Yeah, I'll tell you what Phil, like just, I don't know if it's just getting older or just, you know, I travel more like Sarah and, and chase and carry, you know, I, I'm more of a hotel guy. Um, I love going to Europe for obvious reasons. And I love just like going to the local pubs, finding good restaurants and doing that kind of stuff. But, you know, for the first time, probably the last few years, it's like, I'm actually starting to enjoy, I never really appreciated nature enough. Like,

you know, and then Christine forced my hand. We went to Italy to go to the Dalma mites. And this is the most beautiful. I was actually just holding a glass of wine and just staring out just to the mountains out of our hotel lobby, which had a beautiful view. And like, I, I just felt so at peace. And I think like, I think because we run so hard, like I'm one thing I'm working on is I just feel like I'm always rushing, right? I'm just like, even to get these things,

podcasting, right? Where it's like 10 texts to go, are you open? Are you open? Like we're conscious. I feel like I'm always just going a hundred million miles an hour. And I'm starting to now just enjoy that nature of like, even like when I drive to mammoth, you know, you go to those, you know, that long drive, but you're just going in the middle of nowhere. I'm like, man, a part of me is just like, wow, like I could just live out here for 30 days and just, you know, just kind of a piece. So just, I guess it just slows me down a little bit in a good way.

Chase Peckham (29:14.206)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (29:24.432)
And so I can kind of see myself, I don't know about all the hiking and stuff, but I mean, I've done them and I enjoy them to a point, but just going to those national parks is something I haven't, we've done a couple, but not as much in as passion as you, but I think I'm starting to get to the point where I enjoy that stuff a lot more.

Phil (29:42.713)
The other cool thing, Brian, is there's no cell service. So you couldn't do any, the kids can't get on their phone. You can't get a little, you know, you're like, I'm on my own, but at the same time, it's you've completely disconnected. You don't know what the news, you don't know about the, like there's just you and your little map that you downloaded or a paper map and your family. And you're just exactly.

Chase Peckham (29:42.942)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (29:44.976)
Exactly.

Brian Blackburn (30:00.4)
and your family, and your family, and you're forced to talk to each other. No, that's amazing.

Chase Peckham (30:10.206)
There's something very valuable in that. Very, very valuable in that. And I think if our kids can even learn more from that than anything else of like, hey, there's human connection here and we don't have to be staring at our screens 24 seven and there are beautiful rivers and trees. And there is something like you said, Brian, to feels very at peace. I remember when Carrie and I went to Jackson just as a quick getaway.

and up there in Jackson Hole area during the summer. And oh my God, the beauty of that place, it's awe -inspiring. And you do, you take a deep breath and go, oh my gosh, this is just unreal. And even where we live here in San Diego, just going to the beach the other day and Avery and I were sitting there and I'm like, do you believe that we live here? Like this is our home and we forget how beautiful of a place this is. And...

Brian Blackburn (31:00.24)
It's so funny. You just said that Chase started to jump in there, but I was just going to tell the same thing. Like I've actually, I was listening to a podcast. I just kind of have, you know, to better yourself and whatever. And they talk about getting early sunlight. Like it's one of the keys to like just happiness. And yeah. So I'm now trying to get out on an early and minimum 10 minute walk. And I'm not even taking my phone, even in my suburban area where there's a ton of houses.

Phil (31:17.241)
to get the rhythm going.

Brian Blackburn (31:28.528)
I'm actually just starting to look around for the first time. And it's like, you know, we still have mountains surrounding and I'm like, even that is beautiful. And I'm like, cause even when I would do walks chase, I'm looking at my Slack, my work messages, my texting and it's like music. I'm not even slowing the brain down and I'm going on a, on a walk. So now I'm actually, so that for my little first thing in the morning walk, I'm not taking my phone and I'm just forcing myself to listen to the birds. They just, just,

Chase Peckham (31:33.79)
Absolutely.

Brian Blackburn (31:57.296)
being out there and once again, total suburbia. So it's not like I'm surrounded like the Dalai Lamaites or all these beautiful national parks, but you could just bring it in and you could slow the mind down. And I think that's, so sorry to on that chase to jump in on you, but.

Chase Peckham (32:09.854)
you're going to live longer. That's important. That's extremely important. There's a lot of studies that say just doing a walk, just walking for 30 minutes in the morning and literally, like you just said, disconnect and take in everything else. It slows the body down and the mind, yeah, and less stress. It's just healthy.

Brian Blackburn (32:29.936)
mind here especially.

Brian Blackburn (32:36.592)
Yeah, exactly.

Phil (32:37.305)
Yeah, one thing we did at Joshua Tree is I said, we're going to watch the sunset and we'll wake up early the next day and we're going to watch the sunrise. And they were like, oh, this is awesome. I was like, buddy, you realize the sun rises in San Diego and the sun sets in San Diego. I just never looked at it. And I was like, I know, you know, we could drive to the beach and watch the sunset over the Pacific. You know, we're lucky that we can do that.

Brian Blackburn (32:53.84)
Does it? Yeah.

Phil (33:06.713)
But how many times do we actually take the time, like you said, to look around? Like you could see the sunset from wherever you're at and you could peek over and, you know, I might be looking over, like you said, houses or whatever it is, but you could see the sunset every day. So it's just a matter of like slowing it down sometimes and looking around. Like if I walk the dog, instead of being on my phone or whatever, I can concentrate on just walking the dog. I think goes a long way.

Brian Blackburn (33:31.92)
Yeah, making the, yeah, I think it's just making the time and making the conscious effort to do this. And you have to put, at least I personally, I have to put things in place. That's how I kind of have to move forward with my, my stuff. But I have to kind of like write it down, make a plan, get my, put it into my routine. And then I'm pretty good at executing it. But if I don't, I will be a mess and forget to look around. So.

But that's to each their own. We all have our different ways to do that.

Chase Peckham (34:04.35)
How do you instill that in your kids? Like we mentioned at the top of this episode, I've got a daughter who wants to go do everything and I've got a son who's perfectly happy staying at home and either be on a video game or whatever. He has ADHD, which in his mind, once he goes and does something, he's fine. In his mind though, it's a lot of work to

to get started doing anything. And it's a constant battle of when do you make them get up and say, you're gonna go do this with me, whether you like it or not, because you don't know what is good for you. And I feel like I do versus, you know, there's also some parents that'll be like, hey, they'll figure it out on their own when they figure it out on their own. But, you know, for me, I'm worried that he's gonna sit in his room too long and he's gonna become depressed whether he...

Brian Blackburn (34:56.816)
I think it's balanced, yeah.

Chase Peckham (35:03.742)
you know, knows it or not, because he's, he's just afraid of not afraid, but I don't even know if lazy the right word. He's just not. He's content with just sitting around. Yeah, right.

Phil (35:12.409)
content with just being there.

Brian Blackburn (35:16.496)
Yeah, I think, you know, he, I know clay very well, obviously. And I know chase and you'll be the first to admit you always have to be doing something like you're, you are flying around like a mad man. You cannot sit still, um, even to have you on this podcast for now, what 45 minutes we're correct check checking on here, but you know, I think it's just a little bit of a balance. He's different. You know, he, he, he's okay sitting around and I think that's okay too. Uh, you know, I have those days where I just don't want to do anything. I I'm so like, we talked about, you know, every once in a while I just want to have that.

lazy Netflix day or watch eight hours of sports. And I am so happy. I don't want to be around anyone. I just want to kind of just unwind. And I think it's just, you know, I think as a dad, you just try to find your balance, you know, you got to get him some sunlight, get him outside. But at the end day, you know, I think he will be a little bit different than you. But at the same time, you know, obviously, I wouldn't let him sit in his room all day. But, you know, I think letting him just sometimes unwind. I mean, we don't understand all the stresses that.

15, 16 year old half and he's going through it, right? I mean, he's obviously had still the drama of losing his mother. So, but I think I understand your delicate dance though, because that's really hard. You don't wanna see your kid just sitting in, and I'm not saying Clay does by the way, but sitting in a room all day. But I think it's just getting them outside, getting them out. Yeah.

Chase Peckham (36:33.278)
When he has the time to do that, I mean, in his mind, it's in his mind, it's I'm on spring break and I go go go. I play baseball. I'm at school. I'm studying whatever. This is my chance to do nothing. And sometimes people just genuinely like to do nothing. And I have to remember that because I don't.

Phil (36:35.737)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (36:51.76)
Yep. Yeah. And I think, yeah. And Ashland is the same. And then I have to, I think we forget Chase, at least like I, yeah. Well, I could also speak for myself. Like I feel sometimes Ashland will be in a room on a Saturday, same thing. But then I, we forget, man, they are, I mean, they are going to school all day long. They go, and I know Clay's the same schedule. Then she goes straight to track for another hour and a half. And then two days a week, she, she has to go to soccer after track. And then she's got,

Chase Peckham (36:58.046)
and maybe just because they're teenagers.

Brian Blackburn (37:19.248)
track meet on Thursdays games on soccer games on Sunday homework and then waking up so I think we forget that because we just see like that on a Saturday or that one spring break you're seeing just it's driving you nuts right you're like oh my god like but man if you just open like if you just take and I have to do this by the way I have to take a step back and go oh my god that girl is she doesn't get a break so this is what this is probably exactly what she needs is just to unwind and I think Clay has that same schedule of just that grind.

Phil (37:21.881)
homework.

Chase Peckham (37:45.726)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (37:49.168)
I wouldn't let him go five days straight on spring break, but I think a day or two there just let him just, I think it's good. But we all know our kids decent amount. You do a really good job of telling him the why of why you wanted him to get up. But it's definitely hard Chase. There's no answer. It's hard.

Chase Peckham (38:04.958)
Yeah, I don't just tell him he's a lazy, I don't tell him he's a lazy piece of crap and get up. I mean, I have to explain to him, hey, you know, laying in your bedroom for extended periods of time, whether you know it or not can cause depression. Like you literally just sitting around, you think you're being relaxed, but a lot of times, you know, there's something, your mind's right and your mind,

Brian Blackburn (38:09.488)
Right.

Brian Blackburn (38:19.184)
for sure.

Phil (38:25.945)
Your mind might not be.

Chase Peckham (38:30.846)
and your body, you want to move, your, your body wants to be active and you have to sometimes overcome. It's like, I don't always want to work out, but I do it anyway, because I know it's good for me and I feel so much better afterwards. Just like, well, Phil, you, you know, your kids, you know, there was a really hard hike, but they made it to the top of that mountain. There's accomplishment there and they're going to remember that forever. The euphoria.

Brian Blackburn (38:45.808)
I never want to work out by the way. And I do it.

Phil (38:48.537)
Hehehehehe

Chase Peckham (38:59.966)
Even though they're tired, they feel like, man, my body like your it's your mind is so much stronger than your body and you have to use it that way. And that's why, you know, like I want my son to play football. And I know that it'll be really good for him. But to him, it's it's hard. But he's 632 30. I'm like, you could be really good. You don't know how good you could be. Oh, but it's hard, dad. And I don't as a father don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. It's hard. Hard is good. And

So at what point do you make them at least try instead of just go, okay, he knows what he wants because he doesn't. He's lived 15 and a half years, right? He doesn't know what he doesn't know. So how much do you actually push him?

Brian Blackburn (39:41.68)
Yeah, it's so hard. It's a great question.

Phil (39:46.521)
I think it's a balance and I think it also probably depends, you know, at what stage in their life they are. Um, I think with my kids being much younger, I can push them more. And then as they get older, maybe then they start to have a little bit better understanding of like, you know, I just, this isn't really my thing. Uh, my five year old was like, Ooh, I don't know if I want to go hiking. Like, buddy, you don't really have a choice. You're going to finish this hike because.

What are we going to do? Leave you here at the trailhead and then pick you up on the way back. And he at one point he sat down. He's like, I think I'm done. And I was like, you may think you're done, but you're going to finish this hike because we're all out here and we're not turning around because you feel the he's like, but I think I'm just tired. So I did tell him at some point when he was sitting down and said, buddy, look, I don't want to argue with you. But if you can't handle this short hike, when we get back,

Chase Peckham (40:16.99)
God, that sounds familiar. I hear my dad saying those words right now, Felipe.

Phil (40:43.513)
You and I are doing cows mountain again, uh, Saturday morning and Sunday morning every weekend to get you into shape so you can handle a little hike like this. And he's like, what if I have baseball game? When we'll wake up earlier and go hiking before your baseball game. And he popped right up and he's like, I don't think I want to do that. And I was like, I know you don't want to do as much as I like hiking. I don't know if I want to do that. Um, but.

Brian Blackburn (40:53.872)
awesome.

Chase Peckham (40:58.59)
Nice.

Chase Peckham (41:09.79)
That would be old.

Phil (41:10.585)
That kind of motivated him to, you know, like, okay, maybe I don't want to, but I'm going to have to do it anyways. But he's five. So it makes it a lot easier to say like, you have to, you know, we're not going to change our whole day's plan because you decided you'd rather not go on this hike. Um,

Brian Blackburn (41:28.848)
Yeah, Chase, I would say, and I've learned a lot about, I didn't know much about ADHD until Ash had a little bit younger. I, one thing you just got, I think there's no magical answer. You had, you had to know your kid, but I know, which is interesting and why I'd say you probably push them into it is I didn't realize that anything new for them is so hard, right? It's like, like I never, even in a new position, like even, you know, moving from, you know, defender to, you know,

Chase Peckham (41:50.814)
Yes.

Brian Blackburn (41:57.328)
forward or anything like everything is so hard with ADHD, because it's changed. And it's not like me and you, it's like, well, just go for it. So knowing what he has, and knowing that I would say, you know, you, you probably push him into this year of football, because I think he needs it to just knowing everything that you and I talked about on the side, but you know, and then maybe after, you know, hey, give it one year, give us, you know, go all in, give us a year. And then if you don't like it next year, you'll be a junior. I mean, he's 16. He, you know, I think at that point, he knows.

if he likes it or not. Yeah. I think one more year to push him into it. Yeah. Oh, he's a massive. Yeah.

Chase Peckham (42:28.094)
he's becoming a man now. He's finally getting bigger. He's not just bigger, he's stronger. And I mean, he pushes me around like I'm a ragdoll. And I'm like, dude, yeah. And not only that, but I want him to be around good people and a good culture and structure. And he needs structure more than anything. And it's the same. I mean, I guess it's the same, Phil, when you made me think of your kids

Brian Blackburn (42:44.752)
Right. Structure and good structure.

Chase Peckham (42:57.502)
going up that mountain, it was like, it made me think I've got to do that for my 16 year old son, except his mountain is a football field. And you know, people can talk about whether football is, you know, a safe sport or whatever, blah, blah, blah, but there is a culture to it that is extraordinary. And I believe that if, and not only that, but just the feeling of accomplishment, the feeling like that he overcame something that he didn't want to do necessarily.

there's a lot to be said for that in life because for me it's a metaphor for life. You want, life is really, really hard as we've established many times and you can succumb to it, you can quit, you can let life pass you by or you can pick yourself back up and face challenges and be okay with failure and you're going to become a stronger human being because of it. And

That's what I want him to learn at an early age. And I don't want to make life super easy for him because life's just not, it's just not. And when do they learn that?

Brian Blackburn (44:07.472)
No, you're, I know how you parents, so you, you've told him the why, and I think that's how you're teaching it. And he's taking it in. He might not be listening right now, but he's, he's understanding, you know, that. And yeah. So I think you're doing the right thing. And I think, you know, the coaches are going to give them great structure and he's going to try it. And I'm just saying that just understand how hard that changes for him. That's what I failed to realize. Like I would always say, like, why do you say no to everything? It's like, well, all of a sudden it's like, Oh, somebody.

Chase Peckham (44:32.606)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (44:37.52)
an expert in the that stuff told me like, you don't understand how hard we always say just change just go for it. Like I'm like, I don't get it. Like, you know, but you know, right. And you know, that's where we have to realize but at the same time doesn't mean you don't push them. But you just have to you know, you're coming in at a different angle. And you're but you just give him the why explain like you just did so eloquently. And I think he understands at that point, then you force him into it. And then he's gonna love it. He'll probably be a badass at it.

Chase Peckham (44:46.174)
Their brain doesn't work that way.

Brian Blackburn (45:03.952)
And then next year he'll be like, I can't believe I almost didn't want to play dad. And then you'll feel like a hero. Right now you'll feel like a zero. But in a year you'll feel like a hero. It's hard, man. There's no right answer. There's no right answer. Because then you're like, dude, am I pushing my kid into something for me and not them? And I don't know how you know.

Chase Peckham (45:08.478)
Right.

Phil (45:11.737)
Hehehehehe

Chase Peckham (45:15.55)
Yeah, well, parenting's hard. You know...

Phil (45:20.537)
Great.

Brian Blackburn (45:28.336)
I mean, I think it's pretty easy when you have a five year old and like, you know, when our kids are that age, cause it's like, you're doing it. Like, yeah, they don't even know better, but now they have attitudes, they have opinions, they know a little bit more of the world, but they still not, they don't know it all right, Jay. So, but now it's like, I definitely struggle in the same way. It's like, you don't even, it's really hard and you just do your best, man. You do your best. That's it.

Chase Peckham (45:34.942)
right.

Phil (45:35.929)
Right.

Chase Peckham (45:40.798)
Yes.

Chase Peckham (45:47.23)
Well, Ashlyn's the same age as Clay. Ashlyn's the same age as Clay and she's gone through her metamorphosis kind of through athletics. And I remember there was a time, I mean, you kind of said, hey, stick with soccer, right? There was a time when maybe she didn't want to play. And then, man, she loved it, but she might be even going through another metamorphosis now, right? Like, so they're finding out what they're good at and what they really enjoy.

Brian Blackburn (46:13.008)
I agree. And my only rule is this, like you have to be doing something. I don't like, obviously I'm a big soccer guy. So I have more joy personally, but like, but you know, but that's, that's not my, I want my kids to follow. I want my, no, and I'm not worried about it. I'm a very at peace by the way. I told her, I want her to do whatever is going to bring her joy. And she loves track. Like that's her jam. And like for me, it's just, you have to do something. Something in a team.

Phil (46:22.649)
That's a bonus.

Chase Peckham (46:26.974)
You got two more daughters that, by the way, that still play.

Brian Blackburn (46:41.168)
sports, something in the culture where you have structure and something to keep you, I want you with around like -minded people. I want you, you know, if you have too much time on your hands, bad things could happen, especially at this age. So, um, but I, so I'm very content on, uh, you know, she's going to make a decision on what she wants to do, but like I'm already, I'm super content and I believe in her on what she, you know, she, she will pick something that's, you know, she might go for it. She might not, but she, she has other things in place, um, that are very productive and very, uh,

Chase Peckham (46:53.502)
thousand percent.

Brian Blackburn (47:10.)
that are helping her grow personally. So it's very happy. Yeah, I'm totally content, Chase, on that. So time will tell.

Chase Peckham (47:18.174)
Well, thank you, Phil, for doing your little vacation. And I know that next time, Sarah's going to get her beach vacation, right? You're going to.

Brian Blackburn (47:25.616)
Yeah, compromise.

Phil (47:26.681)
I think our next vacation will include airplanes and not road trips.

Chase Peckham (47:30.462)
Yeah.

Brian Blackburn (47:32.88)
Dig out that wallet.

Chase Peckham (47:33.502)
Again, it's a little bit of a balance and it's super sweet that your wife will do that for you. But I guess when I would just, I was vicariously living through your posts, just remembering my childhood and then realizing that you got to push sometimes your kids through their comfort zones, push them out of their comfort zones to experience something that they're not necessarily used to. And that can be very, very difficult. We went a lot of different places. Yes, absolutely it does.

Brian Blackburn (47:58.448)
And that goes for us too, Chase. That goes for us too. I mean, I'm still set in my own ways where I have to push myself out of it. We still don't know what we like and don't. There's still stuff out there that maybe we haven't tried because of fear or time or just outside our comfort zone. And yes, I'm always, I think, obviously, a young teenager, they need a little bit more health. But we have to be pushed too. We have to be pushed too.

Chase Peckham (48:24.35)
That's a whole other podcast, Brian. I'm going through a whole world where my life is so different now. I mean, I have no idea what's ahead of me. Zero. And that's a whole different discussion.

Phil (48:26.009)
Yeah.

Phil (48:38.329)
I think you're right, Brian, to push yourself to try new things. You know? I'm gonna kayak this summer. I'd never been kayaking, never had any... But I keep hearing.

Chase Peckham (48:47.07)
Oh, ocean kayaking is awesome.

Brian Blackburn (48:48.336)
Hey, maybe, Phil, maybe Chase and I are gonna jump in our car and go down to one of our trails right here, maybe. We're like five minutes away from all of them. Yeah, so that's more my jam too, but no, great stuff, guys, and yep. It's just.

Phil (48:54.169)
There you go. I'll see you guys at potato chip rock.

Chase Peckham (48:58.558)
Is that a trail to the golf course, Brian? Because I like those walks in nature.

Phil (49:01.529)
Hehehehehe

Chase Peckham (49:08.638)
Yeah, again, parenting is hard and I'm just so happy that everybody needs a little break. Again, I'm off for Salt Lake City here in two days. Clay is off to go visit Ryan and Blake, our friends, and he's going to get to go to opening day in St. Louis. So he is going to get out, he's going to go hunting, and he's going to go get a whole experience that he's never had before in the middle part of our country here in southern Illinois.

with some family friends. So it's going to be fun and he's going to be definitely outside his comfort zone. I can tell you that for sure. So like us, follow us, send this podcast out, share it with your friends. And as we say every single week, life is life.

Brian Blackburn (49:45.584)
It's awesome.